Ashleigh:
Okay, so would you all tell us a little bit about the session that you will be hosting at the National Sexual Assault Conference?

Anna Lee (she/her):
wants to start.

Natchawi Wadman:
Go ahead, Anna.

Anna Lee (she/her):
Sure. I know we have a longer title, so let me actually pull that up. But how shame and silence were taught in API communities or Asian and Pacific Islander communities and learning through the implementation of an intergenerational approach to prevent and address sexual violence in Asian and Pacific Islander communities. So our session is really focusing on what does that look like? is how does shame and silence, how does that look like? And what has brought up to that? What has led up to that in Asian and Pacific Islander communities, families? What are the cultural norms that we see? And the API community being not a monolith, understanding that there are so many different ethnicities within that, and then within that, maybe different tribes or different groups. There's just so much nuance to be had that... Some norms aren't the same even, you know, between let's say the Cambodian families and the Korean families. And we do have research that has been done. There's three different reports that we'll be speaking from and sharing out at this session that help support kind of these claims and these norms that we've seen from various focus group, interviews and conducting our own workshops. And those workshops have been done through both youth communities and parent communities. And so we'll be talking a little bit about that in our session and also bringing in a couple of the activities we do in each of those trainings, a cultural iceberg that's done from the youth side and then also a parenting kind of discussion, reflection around childhood and how those two connect to really get at that intergenerational piece. of how do we bridge this gap and where does that come from and what rules do each side play in terms of sustaining this kind of shame and silence culture that we see a lot, which also intersects into so many other things. And so I think one thing we're trying to do in this session is stay grounded because so easily we can, everything relates to another when we talk about intersectionality, right? So like, how does silence play a part in you know, with anti-blackness or like how does silence show up as compliance to certain things. So I think there's a lot that we can dig deeper with this session, but we're going to try to keep it a tight 90 minutes for this session for NSAC to get at how really this culture of shame and silence shows up and how is it formed and how do we prevent that and build healthier relationships moving forward. Anything you want to add to that, Nat?

Natchawi Wadman:
I think you've covered it all.

Anna Lee (she/her):
Thanks for watching!

Janae Sargent (she/they):
Thank you so much for that. And I wanna kind of back up for a moment and one shout out some appreciation for you all because we know that people learn best by examples, right? And so often in this movement, we get buzzword fatigue, right? Like I hear all the time and it's true, but that your programs need to be culturally specific. They have to be culturally responsive. You're not doing... prevention work if you're not doing culturally specific work. But if you're talking about that, like just the word with no explanation on a big national level, I'm like, what, what does that even mean? Like you can't be culturally specific to everyone. And we don't do a great job. at uplifting examples of what culturally specific programs actually look like in practice. So I'm really excited that you all are coming to NSAC and that people are getting a chance to learn from you. Starting like really basic 101 level, what does culturally specific mean to you all and how does that come out in your work?

Anna Lee (she/her):
Do you want to take this off net with this one?

Natchawi Wadman:
Sure, I think I really appreciate you raising that though, how we use a lot of jargon in our work and in our sector. And a lot of times we make assumption that we pretend to understand what it is or actually understand what it is from our own perspective. But then when we work in the larger sector, there are some misunderstanding nuances that at the end it actually be cause harm to the people that we work with. So I think fundamentally from Center for the Pacific Asian Family, culturally specific is something that we want to honor the needs of the individual, right? Regarding to their culture, however they define their culture. Because culture could be the dominant culture, the mainstream culture. But within those cultures, the subculture, the ethnic specific culture, family culture, and the individual culture, the how we shape. and form our own values in term of our living. I just want to simplify culturally specific is, do no harm principle by honoring and honor the different needs that come based on the different being of the individual. Another aspect that I would like to talk about in term of culturally specific is that, oftentimes, we use our own lens to looking at the work. Right? And if you're looking at feminism, you know, and all those principle, who actually come up with those principle? Which culture that actually influence it, right? When we talk about the language itself, what is a dominant language within certain culture and how those language influence how we understand each other and how we project our own needs? Culturally specific is to really unpack those different layer, to really understand the fundamental need that hasn't been recognized in the society or in the dominant culture, is to really allow ourselves with humility to challenge our own assumption, to challenge our own understanding about one another and be more curious and open about what you actually do in these circumstances. How do you approach healing? How do you see trauma? Who do you go to when you experience... difficult circumstances and challenges in life, right? And when you talk about sexual violence, for example, what does that look like in your culture? Can you talk a little bit more about how does that project or communicate, right? Or process within your family dynamic, within your culture that you associate yourself with. And I think those are something that C-PAP over 45 years, that's what we have been doing really well. And in a way that we're not looking at the culture as just one whole thing, but we really create opportunities, spaces, approach, and also a means to actually help individual unpack what it means for them. And we're here to listen to them. We're here to give them an opportunity to make sense, whatever trauma, situation, circumstances that they are in, and then we help them navigate through some of those, you know, difficult challenges. One of CPAP value that we hold on so tightly is around self-determination. Because it's so critical when it comes to culturally specific organization like us to provide culturally responsive services is at the end, the person who knows best is that individual, right? Who actually in the situation, survivor, their family and those who supporting them. Our role here as a service provider is to provide all those options. and help them navigate through some of those solutions. And at the end, they can take ownership of what they want their life to turn to be or how they want to address them.

Janae Sargent (she/they):
Thank you. That

Anna Lee (she/her):
Yeah,

Janae Sargent (she/they):
makes a

Anna Lee (she/her):
and

Janae Sargent (she/they):
lot of

Anna Lee (she/her):
I'll

Janae Sargent (she/they):
sense.

Anna Lee (she/her):
just add two.

Janae Sargent (she/they):
Go ahead.

Anna Lee (she/her):
Yeah, I'll add to that. I think for me personally, I prefer the term culturally responsive over culturally specific. I think maybe it's my own understanding or how I see the two. But I think culturally specific can often also come with an assumption that you're now an expert in a specific culture. You now know everything. But I think culturally responsive is exactly what Nat fully described. It's an ongoing learning process. It is a process of humility as well. It's a process of cultural humility, right? And how do we position ourselves to be at a learning space and also offer up what we know from our own experiences and know that no two experiences are the same. And how do we respond to that? How do we put ourselves in the position of response and of listening? instead of knowing and always teaching. So I think, you know, terminology is always evolving and always changing and nothing's ever perfect. But yeah, I really appreciated how Nat described that process.

Janae Sargent (she/they):
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. And so a follow-up, I guess, to that then, because that really got me thinking about prevention too. So that makes sense to me, what culturally responsive looks like as an organization within client services, letting people drive their own experiences. That makes a lot of sense. And then I think you take it kind of one step more removed and what does culturally responsive look like for prevention? That's like a whole other question. Could you speak to that a little bit?

Anna Lee (she/her):
Sure, I can start with that a little bit as being the program manager for our prevention programs here at Center for the Pacific Asian Family. I think Nat did describe that in her response earlier as well, giving the space for individuals to explore questions that they hadn't before, that they maybe didn't have the opportunity or a safe space to come to understand. So for youth especially, it's... in a critical time in their lives when they're trying to figure out or understand their own identity. And it can be a really confusing time. So really offering that safe space and offering a space where it's not a one time but an ongoing series so that you can build that rapport and trust within the group so that people can share more truthfully for themselves and authentically explore and question things for themselves. Whether it's things like gender identity or whether it's really looking at their current relationships and being able to question. is this healthy or not, because that totally informs the norms that one person understands and kind of the perspective that they have operating from when they enter into any other relationship in the future of, oh yeah, this is normal and so this is healthy, this just happens everywhere, so if I see that in another relationship, like that's just normal. But really offering a space to challenge and to question those norms and to think, is this something you would want in a world where you had control or you got to say what you really wanted to? what's safe for yourself and say what's encouraging and empowering for yourself, what would that look like? What do you imagine? And kind of giving them that space to go beyond those limits of what they've known so far. So I think prevention in a culturally responsive way is to open up that discussion space for them to explore and for them to bring in what their experiences are and having a space to be able to share that and unpack that a bit rather than. you know, saying this is how things should be, you know, this is what a healthy relationship looks like, if yours doesn't look like this, there's probably a problem. But instead having them be the ones to initiate those conversations, we're just there to facilitate, right? We're just there to help provide that safe space and provide these questions that can spark, you know, conversations based off of their experiences and then them being able to share with each other. Very similarly in our parent groups and workshops, what makes the parenting training series a success is the participants that come into it. So one thing that's super important for us there is the consistent attendance and participation because without that same group dynamic, the learning just isn't the same because again, for our staff, we're just there to facilitate those conversations, but what makes it richer is their own personal and culturally specific and their own individual experiences that they bring into it. So I think... In terms of how the prevention is at work is again, providing that space so they can have these discussions. I mean, especially talking about if there's a culture of shame and silence, especially the culture of silence, then it's breaking that silence, right? By providing spaces for people to talk. So I think that's a large part of our prevention work. How about you Nat?

Natchawi Wadman:
Yeah, I can add to that as well. And I can sum it in a very concrete way. So if you're looking at youth development aspect, right, there's four component of positive youth development, which is the principle and approach that we're using at our agency. We're looking at asset, which is knowledge and understanding and skill. In order to do that, you need to like exactly what Anna said, create that space. But then you also have to equip them with the language. the ability to communicate that thought, the ability to be able to make sense of their own feeling, emotion, that come up with certain knowledge and understanding, and ability and courage for them to be able to challenge some of those norms, right? Because those are something that they know for a very long time. They were taught, they're influenced by their family, they're influenced by the community, their peer. And if they never have those space and they never have an opportunity to recognize or increase more awareness that they are other means, other languages and other knowledge and understanding that you can make sense of things. Those are very critical when it comes to asset. The second element is throughout that process, we want to increase that sense of agency of youth themselves. We want them to really, we create this safe space, we create this different tool for them to pick and choose whatever work well for them. That is culturally responsive, right? This is culturally specific. And those based on the gender too, right? With the nuances, with the fluidity, so on and so forth. We allow them to navigate through all of those things. At the end, they come up with the conclusion and decision that this makes sense to me when it comes to the definition of consent. There's a broad perspective of consent. There's a broad perspective of boundary, but this is my boundary. This is how I define it. This is keep me safe, right? So those are something that we want to enhance. The other tool is around contribution. We want to create leadership opportunity for them. Once when they move beyond the individual awareness, challenge their own thinking and understand where they fit within the family, community and society at large, if we create an opportunity for them to contribute further than themselves, there's so much more that they can do prevention work for others. So every... influence of sphere of influence for them is no longer just the individual. It will go into the group appear, it will go into the school setting and then we'll be able to influence other. Last but not least is that enabling environment. When Anna mentioned about working with parents, working with adult ally, we need to make sure that we do create a space and platform for them to raise more awareness about what's going on. The world has been moving faster than ever been. Right? With the pandemic itself, we learned so much of different nuances within so-called that we thought we understood what it is when it comes to culture, but there's a different layer now that added into it. Right? When it comes to youth, when it comes to people who are not fit in within the dominant culture. So I think those are something that, you know, we hold on tightly and we consider all of those approach in how we do prevention work. And prevention is not just primary prevention. It's secondary prevention. It's all different. a level of prevention that we want to make sure that we really address the root cause of those violence and we do allow people to challenge one another in a way that we're not judging, right? We come to agree to disagreement in all of those conversations.

Ashleigh:
Thank you both so, so much for that. You know, I'm thinking about everything that you're sharing with us. And one thing that comes to mind is that for all cultures, cultural norms have such a large influence on how people feel about issues or respond to issues related to violence and to safety, but. those norms can vary a lot from culture to culture, which is why I really love how you explained culturally responsiveness, Anna. And Nat, I heard you say earlier that a lack of cultural responsiveness can lead to causing additional harm, specifically to survivors. But I think in... when we're doing prevention really to entire communities. And so I'm wondering if you could share with us, like why is it so critical to take a culturally responsive approach with community when you're trying to do prevention work? Like what do we gain to lose by not doing that? And what do we gain, what do we stand to gain by doing that, if that makes sense?

Anna Lee (she/her):
I think in this one maybe we can keep going back and forth, but the first thing that came to my mind was I mean we talk about it all the time in all webinars and all prevention trainings and things and not just prevention but direct services as well about meeting people where they're at and I think to put cultural responsiveness very simply it's just that. But how do you know where people are at if you don't ask first, if you don't come with curiosity, if you don't come with a learning posture to be able to say, hey, I recognize your expertise and your own lived experiences, how about you tell me what you think the issue is here or what you are needing? Or maybe you're not in a space to identify what you're needing, so let's give some support and then see if you're able to reevaluate that situation. So I think meeting people where they're at is... always, it's just the work of community work, right? It's the work of service. It's the work of being able to be there to really identify what the community needs are. And so I think that's one way that it's so crucial that everyone, I think, can agree on that cultural responsiveness is super important. In terms of specific to thinking about ethnic specific or racially, specific groups and how do we learn more about that? I think it's to broaden our own understanding that things don't look the same everywhere and that you can have a healthy relationship that looks in a way that's completely different than what you have ever seen or experienced before and it can still be okay. So I think being more open to knowing how different healthy relationships can look like, how we can still honor cultural values and traditions that certain cultures may have, religions, or just you know, traditional practices in different areas of the world. How can we kind of let down our guard of what's right and wrong and move away from that binary thinking and think more about, Oh yeah, like that can look this way and different. It's nothing that I would do that I know anything about, but who am I to say that that's unhealthy if it holds these pillars of consent, respect, boundaries, et cetera, right? So. I think it broadens our horizons and understanding of what something could look like rather than keeping us limited and kind of with a narrow tunnel vision of what it should be. Anything you want to add to that, Nat?

Natchawi Wadman:
Yeah, I think just to put it in a shorter format of what Anna just shared, which is exactly what we're doing every day, right? We challenge our own assumption, we challenge ourselves, we do the work with curiosity. I think fundamentally, humility and empathy are the two main key when it comes to culturally specific services and culturally responsive, meaning that when you go into the space, you're not in the position that you have power over because that is the root cause of violence, right? Like to really understand how you use your power as service provider when it come to that space and not go in there like I know it all and I think I know what you're going through, it's already caused harm from having that thought from the beginning. So if you go in with humility that actually I don't know a lot about you, I know your name, I know why you're here. But can we get to know one another to really understand where you are, like what Anna was saying, what may not necessarily explore what happened because we know what happened brought them here. But we want to explore the impact, right? How does that have an impact on the individual and then go from there. The second is that empathy is from the non-judgmental place, right? We want to offer to folks and we want to be there to hold the space. and recognize that everybody have done the best they can. In so many circumstances that people are in, it may not be their first choice that they want to react, to approach things, to encounter things a certain way, but they have done the best they can. So with that, you will become more open, you know, to really hear more of what actually caused them or lead up to the certain points. And I feel like when you talk about prevention work, I'm not only talking about the survivor, I'm not only talking about the community. I'm also talking about people who actually potentially cause harm, right? Harms where they have been done without knowing because they don't know that they're actually harmful to others. Or others may not have that courage to tell the individual that what you have done to me is actually cause harm. Whether it's a harm, a small, you know, harm with the smaller impact to the harm that against the law, so on and so forth. I think those are critical when it comes to using this culturally specific and culturally responsive lens into it, because we don't assume people's attention, right? We just come with open-minded, you know, with a lot of questions and also try to trying to understand each other. Last but not least though, I really want us to, you know, unpack this whole meaning of violence too. Because when you talk about culturally specific and culturally responsive, violence in so many cultures is acceptable, right? It's part of their norm. So when you talk about that violence, you need to understand how they see violence. Once when you understand it, you understand what is safe, what is unsafe, what are the parameters, what are the scope when people describe their violence within the household, within the family, or in their community. From there, there's so much more that you can work with them. You can help them navigate through healing journey to really figure out this justice piece that they're looking for and be able to reclaim their life, you know, back after many incidents that happened to them.

Janae Sargent (she/they):
I really appreciate that framing. And I think it's so powerful too, because I think what holds a lot of people back from doing culturally responsive or specific work is they're afraid that they will never be an expert on all the things. And I think that's the whole point. You will never be an expert on all the things. And that's actually not culturally responsive. And that we're not asking people to have done 10 years worth of homework to walk into a space with someone who has an identity different from their own and understand everything about their lived experience because it's just not possible. It sounds like what we are asking or what you all are explaining that you do is the understanding that you don't know and the willingness to learn in a human centered way and to not have the assumption that your way is right and you have to teach the other person. Like an actual, we are two human beings taking up equal space, or I want us to take up equal space, recognizing power dynamics, and I want to learn from you. That is so much easier for Janae as a person to do than to know everything about everything. So I just, that's really powerful and I appreciate you saying that. You know, you've mentioned this a couple of times when we've talked about the dynamics of violence, you talk about the culture of shame and you mentioned it in your proposal and in our conversation. For people who might not know, can you talk to me, talk to us a little bit about what a culture of shame is and how that shows up in the communities that you work with? and what you do to be culturally responsive.

Anna Lee (she/her):
to start this one next.

Natchawi Wadman:
Sure. I think I just want to introduce this simple concept of shame and guilt because those two concepts seem to be very confusing when people talk about this. So shame is I am the mistake. That's how you feel with shame. All of me, I'm the mistake. I was born in this world. It's the mistake. Everything I do, my thought, my existence, you know, is the mistake. But when we talk about guilt, is I make a mistake, right? Is the behavior is an action that becomes a mistake, you know, something that happened that doesn't fit in or become unacceptable to others. So thinking of shame, you know, that passing on from generation to generation or through internalized messages when it come to sexual violence, when it come to intimate partner violence, when it come to relationship within, you know, the family dynamic. And also looking at all those historical aspects when it comes to gender too. I can give a specific example. For some culture in Asia, in some of the countries, I think in China, and some in South Asian countries as well, being born as a girl, it's already like you have no power. It is a shame to the family because it's a mistake for the family to give birth to a girl. Because being a girl, it doesn't bring a lot of status to the family. It doesn't bring pride to the family. Just imagine that, like your origin of birth, you know, born as a girl, it's already set within you, right? And you hold on to that messages and value growing up, trying to go to school, and then people keep telling you, you're a girl, you shouldn't be going to school, you should be staying at home and doing your housework. or you just have to go out there and help out with your family rather than getting an education. So those internalized messages have been passing on because of the different aspect of socioeconomy, social status, gender, religious, so on and so forth, that brings shame. And you start to believe that you are the mistake because the way you are. And within API communities, there's a lot of those messages. that influence our day to day because of the dominant culture. When I talk about the dominant culture, I just want to be clear that I'm talking about white supremacy culture. I would like to talk about the impact of colonization. I would like to talk about Eurocentric aspect that influence that dominant culture. And if you're looking at the historical context in Asia, so many countries are actually colonized by European country, by the US too. in so many ways. So when you're looking at the power structure within the country, anyone who actually acts closer, behaves closer, or believes closer to the dominant culture, they get higher value and status. Right? How does that impact to those who may not have resources? The whole society and institution put them as you're such a shame to the society because you just can't get yourself out of the poverty. right? And you start blaming. So shame oftentimes comes with the blame. And from the institution in all of those countries, it's triggering down into the community, right? And into the individual. And that's the value. And that is a root cause in all of this. It's so hard for someone to get out of the feeling of being shameful for anything, or just their own identity or who they are. So once when they experience harm, that's even worse because they already feel bad about who they are, that they are not a desired population or individual in the community. So when harm being done to them, they feel like I deserve this because I'm already a mistake in this society. So that's how I should live my life. So all this harm is all my doing, right? So working with this particular population, that's Asian Pacific and Islander, we need to unpack a lot of those. So that's why culturally specific and culturally responsive is so critical because when we go in, we're trying to understand where are they at, how are they influenced by all of these internalized messages from the institution, historical context from the country that they're coming from, and also the different value that they hold on until today. that tend to be very harmful for them, right? And work with them to really figure out what is that liberation for them, to recognize that they are no longer a mistake. They just make a mistake, a mistake happened to them, and there are ways for them to discover that they can find their own dignity. They can reclaim their voice. They can reclaim their being and identity. So those are something that we have done and you will actually experience this during the session. We will be giving a lot of different tools and activity for you to experience yourself of what does that look like to explore those different nuances, you know, during INSAT. I'll give it back to Anna to add more.

Anna Lee (she/her):
Yeah, I think, thank you, Nat. I think that painted a really great roadmap and kind of tied it all back and circled back really nicely. I was going to give more specific examples as well about what the cultural shame can look like and what kind of norms fed into that. But I'm actually going to save that for the NSAC session itself because we will have an opportunity there to identify those. specific ones. So I don't want to give too much away and I almost did so I'm glad that went first or else I would have just revealed everything. So yeah, nothing to add at this time.

Ashleigh:
Yes, save some of that magic that's going to be happening in your session. Gosh, yeah, thank you so much Nat. That was just, yeah, this conversation is really phenomenal. And my next question is actually related. to asking you all about the culture of shame, but it's looking back more into the historical context that you talked about, Nat. And I'll just share briefly, so back when I was a wee young prevention practitioner, I worked in Long Beach, California, and Long Beach has a really large population. I'm or I should say community, a Cambodian community. And there are some just amazing organizations working with Cambodian youth in Long Beach. And one thing that I really like learned, I guess, but also that's just like informed everything that I've done going forward was when I would partner with some of those organizations, hearing about the generational trauma that so many of the families that came from Cambodia to Long Beach had experienced, it made it seem like coming in to talk about sexual violence was like maybe the last thing that we needed to be doing. There was so much more. There was so many other things that were impacted. the youth because of what so many of their parents had experienced. And I hope that makes sense. I hope I'm making sense. But that's just making me think about how you all in your session description talk about intergenerational trauma and intergenerational prevention. And just wondering if you would share a little bit, what does that mean to you to do prevention on an intergenerational level? Because I think a lot of times, when you talk, sorry, one more thing, Nat, when you talked about white supremacy, I think what white supremacy culture does is that we don't think about the historical context, right? We don't think about things like colonization. We don't think about the roles that our country has played in that history. And so I just I would just love to hear from you both on that question

Anna Lee (she/her):
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, go ahead, Nat, you wanna start?

Natchawi Wadman:
You can go.

Anna Lee (she/her):
Yeah, I'll just say fairly quickly that I think I would term intergenerational programming, prevention, work as youth adult partnership. I think that might be something that's easier to grasp in concept of what that might look like. But again, calling back on two words that... that shared earlier with humility and empathy. Right, so I think we do this a lot in our parenting workshop groups because we talk about how they were parented. You know, yeah, you're here to like learn about, you know, how to parent, you know, how to be less violent. That's not the way we term it, but just to say it directly. But really it's about how do you build empathy for yourselves as parents? You know, I think. mom guilt is like a term that's like so common and just like being a parent and there's just so much guilt in parenting. How do we build empathy for ourselves in that journey and look at how we were parented? Why do we know why do we do the way that we do? How do we really believe that we are doing the best that we can with the resources that we have at this time in this moment and that we'll continually do so and not to turn that guilt into shame, right? That Nat had said earlier about the differences and so... That's one way that the intergenerational work within your own life, I think, understanding yourself as a youth and how you are now as an adult and what that relationship is with your inner child. And also how do you pass that empathy along to the youth of now, right? To the children now. And in the youth workshops, it is about building that empathy also, but it looks different, right? For them and in their time and who they have relationships with. And actually with the youth that we've engaged with, they already have a lot of empathy for their teachers, for example, or adults. They always kind of preface their statements with, we know that there's a lot going on and they'll identify specific things. So they are very aware, very listening, very observant to already have that empathy. And then what they're needing is like to receive empathy as well, or to receive some understanding to be seen and to be heard. And so as these are being discussed and kind of revealed in the separate youth and adult spaces or youth and parenting spaces, then we come together for like our annual event that we've been working on over the years as our youth forum that started out as being youth led and a youth space. And now we're trying to integrate more intergenerational aspects of it where youth and parents and adults can kind of learn and hear from each other after having gone through our programs and whatnot. So... It's definitely intergenerational work in the prevention program for us is a growing concept and growing in terms of what that actually can look like in our program activities. But yeah, it starts with our youth and parents' bases in the ways that I had just talked about. Go ahead, Matt.

Natchawi Wadman:
Thank you, Anna. And I think, like I said earlier, I understand the history is so important. In order to do intergenerational work, humility, it's just to give yourself that and to offer that to others and to admit that actually you don't know about where one's coming from and to initiate that conversation. The example that you gave is such a great example because we heard about Cambodia. We heard about genocide happening in that. But we never heard a story of what it's like for someone to experience that on that healing journey, right? We only knew the impact of what happened. So I think, just imagine, you know, you met someone from that community and you said, it must be really hard for you to go through such an experience. Would you like to share some of what it's like for you to make it to today? you know, what's that healing journey look like, like all of those resilience that you've been going through. You know, as a human being, that is to build that connection, right? And to build that connection, like to really honor their story that never been told anywhere else, that never been told in the book, that's never been told in the article, that's never been told in the documentary, is when you honor such a story, you really honor one being. And once when that started, you start to learn the different aspects of the historical context that never been told, which will help you improve your work significantly of your understanding of that community, understanding of that healing journey, and understanding of the different generation. I'm not talking about generation that, you know, far different, like 20 years, I'm talking about someone who 45 and someone who 40. Even though they identify themselves from the same community, but they experience trauma differently. They experience healing differently. They internalize all these messages from the dominant paradigm of white supremacy culture, colonization from France that had influence on their country very differently, right? Because of the education and social status within the country itself. that already gives you a lot of information, a lot of understanding, a lot of aha moment. That's what happened. That's the difference. So once when you recognize that, you'll be able to navigate through these different aspects around intergenerational work. Right? And then, how does this narrative and story pass on to the different generation? I have a lot of colleagues and folks as well. Actually, one of our staff and he just left and he identified himself within the Cambodian. I asked him, have you ever talked about any of this to your parents at all? Oh no, it's no, we're not supposed to talk about it. It's a terrible story. It's something that's really like heavy for all of us. So I asked, you know, I challenged in a way like, but if you don't ask, how would you know, you know, the family history? How would you know how your mom get here? How would you know? how your grandparents get it, how would you honor their strength? How would you honor their resiliency and be able to hold on to some of those and continue on with the legacy of that? Oftentimes we look at trauma as something to forget and just wipe it out of the history. It doesn't work that way when it comes to culturally specific or culturally responsive, because we want to figure out what are the strengths along the way as well. So I think those are some things that I feel like it's missing when we talk about intergenerational context. we really need to discover what are the strengths, what are the resilience, what are the healing aspects that help them get to where they are at today and equip them with more tools, which Anna will be talking about during the session, and more knowledge and understanding of how they can adapt and apply and adjust those to their being. So then they can continue on with the resources that we actually provide to them. So I think I just want to leave it at that. with that, which is very critical. I also have two sessions as well in NSAC. Come join me if you want to, which I will be talking a lot about, the whole white supremacy culture, dominant culture, how it's influenced the API culture as well. And what are the messages that we carry with us and the messiness between people of color too. Why we discriminate against each other? What institute, right? Those different power dynamics.

Janae Sargent (she/they):
Thank you so much. I also wanna see your second session and that is a really great segue as well. You know, we are obviously really focused on the prevention track and it's the largest prevention track in the country. There's a reason for that. We're very proud of the prevention track and NSAC is a huge event and there are so many different tracks. And we're all having really important conversations about equity in action. You know, I mean, we have the prevention track, we have our LGBTQ track, we have a sex worker track, a reproductive justice track. We have a justice track. Like there are so many things. And I think that's the beautiful thing about the national sexual assault conference is we're bringing in people from all over the country and from a bunch of different cross-acting movements. to talk about what it means to create safe communities. And so I am curious for you both thinking about, broadening outside of the prevention track for a moment, what are some of the conversations that you're really looking forward to in NSAC and what are some conversations that you would really like to see people having about the broader anti-sexual violence movement?

Natchawi Wadman:
you want me to go, Anna? OK. I really love this question. I feel like the beauty of the work of integration and segregation, it has to come together. I'm saying this from someone who's seen from the lens of culturally specific, right? You need something for a certain culture to invest more time, resources that are appropriate for that. But also, you need to step out and see how does that fit in within the larger context. So I really hope that throughout NSAC, we will be able to do that. We create a specific space for the different population, different need, different focus, but at the end, what does it mean to the sector? What's the common goal? What is the similarity? What's the eye on the price that we all need to figure it out when it comes to equity? Because... Oftentimes I see and you know, I recently just moved to the US, but I worked internationally before. What I noticed that what different in the US is oftentimes we tend to focus on that culturally specific group, but we forget that we need to become an ally for other community as well. That allyship is so critical for the movement. That allyship is so critical to reach out to the equity goal because If you don't understand what other experience, if you don't understand the gap in their services, if you don't understand their narrative and difficulty and challenges that they're going through, you're always going to tell yourself, my priority is important than yours. We're always going to compete our priority and needs to others. One of the principles that we use at our agency for nonviolence philosophy is that needs are not in conflict. And what it meant is that oftentimes we use a strategy that creates the conflict. So how do we address some of those strategies that hasn't been working in our sector that create this disparity in services and gap in services and look at things differently to really figure out the strategy that recognize everybody needs, but bring everybody together to make sure that all these resources are allocated based on those needs. but not equally, I'm talking about equity. So based on those needs and to make sure that we keep each other's space to recognize those as well. So that's where I'm at on NSAT. I am hopeful and I see that we're getting there. I hope that at the end we have somewhat a very concrete, you know, strategic discussion of what does that look like for the second.

Anna Lee (she/her):
Yeah, I agree. That would be amazing. I guess I had to stop and think about for a moment because I was like, oh, do we have the time? You know what NSAC like to come at the end of training? That would be amazing if we could and have that specific conversation as well. And I think this ties into maybe what you'll ask coming up, but in terms of what conversations I'd like to see happening at NSAC, I think in alignment with the theme of equity in action. I think it would be conversations that respond to like the following two questions, which I feel like we've kind of touched, we repeated and kind of touched upon throughout this whole interview, was, well, how would we or how do we practice equity if we don't maintain continuous learning of the needs and histories of all peoples, right? So maintaining that openness of that. And then with the knowledge that we do know, and if we're trying to implement equitable practices and practice equity, then well, then whose needs are we keeping in mind when we try to do that? you know, then, you know, just maintaining that openness of what we don't know. Um, but to not let that freeze us as well, right? I think sometimes we get the opposite end of that spectrum is, well, I don't know anything, so I can't do anything, right? Then that just kind of freezes the moment. But instead, how do we use that as a pushing forward as a enacting, you know, creating, making us proactive in the movement. to actively learn more and share what we do know and not minimize what we do know, but just being open to also learn from others. So I think that just creating more of those aha moments at the conference as well to lend to more eye opening and empowering ideas and strategies that then we can take back home to continue the work.

Janae Sargent (she/they):
Thank you. I, I'm so ready for all the aha moments. You know, Ashley and I talk about this frequently and it's something I'm reminded of every time that I get the chance to have a conversation about NSOC to have someone on the podcast to interface with all of the work that you're doing is just how powerful it is to learn and community. And I cannot believe that I get paid to learn from people all the time, like you both and that's just something that's on my mind as we're going into NSAC. I'm so excited to be in community. And I'm excited to feel the vibes of everyone kind of coming together around this stuff too, because yeah, it's the things that happen in the session. It's also the conversations that happen in the hallway, or at lunchtime or you know, in those when we're all bringing I was just, I just had another interview for this session before this, and we were talking about how hard it is to not be able to sign up for everything because there are so many things happening. But that's why there are going to be 2000 people there. We can learn from each other. And that's just really exciting. And we are so excited to have you. I'm excited to see you both in person. And we're so grateful that you came on to give us a little sneak peek of your work.

Anna Lee (she/her):
Absolutely. Thanks so much for having us. And yeah, I will say NSAC is my favorite conference. Is that a secret? I don't know. But maybe it is because prevention is so apparent and so strong, I think, in this conference. And that's kind of where my heart is with all the work. So always looking forward to NSAC and being in San Francisco is a plus.

Natchawi Wadman:
Yeah, same here for me. I really appreciate you giving us the space to talk about our work. And we are looking forward to seeing you all and seeing 2,000 people more learning, exchanging conversation and, you know, nonstop talking about sexual violence for three days. Looking forward

Anna Lee (she/her):
Thank you.

Natchawi Wadman:
to that.

Janae Sargent (she/they):
It doesn't when you put it like that. It doesn't sound fun. I know it's going to be very fun

Anna Lee (she/her):
I'm going to go ahead and turn

Janae Sargent (she/they):
I'm

Anna Lee (she/her):
it off.

Janae Sargent (she/they):
gonna need a month to recharge

Natchawi Wadman:
It is!

Ashleigh:
Oh my gosh, well thank you both so, so much. It was so exciting to get to have this conversation and I'm looking forward to meeting you. I'll be looking out for you so I can say hi. And yeah, I'm just thrilled that you are part of the prevention track. I've been such a, fan is a weird word, but maybe just like always in awe of all the work that you all do at CPATH. and just such an important resource and asset to your community, so thank you.

Anna Lee (she/her):
Thank you so much.

Natchawi Wadman:
Thank you.