Janae Sargent (she/they): Sarah, I am so excited to see you. It's been a hot minute. The last time I saw you was on another podcast, like a year Sarah Ferrato: I know. Janae Sargent (she/they): ago. How are you doing? Sarah Ferrato: We keep meeting like this. Doing really well. Janae Sargent (she/they): We Sarah Ferrato: How Janae Sargent (she/they): can't Sarah Ferrato: are Janae Sargent (she/they): keep Sarah Ferrato: you? Janae Sargent (she/they): meeting like this. I'm doing well. I am starting to, in a good way, I think, like low-key freak out about how close NSAC is. One, because of work stuff, but also I have not seen a large group of people, especially people that I know, in a very long time. I'm very excited to meet you in person. I'm also really nervous about my introvert social battery. Sarah Ferrato: very much heard and felt, yeah, gearing up right now for NOVA, the conference in New Orleans, and feeling very much the same, like lots of excitement, especially around meeting folks in person for the first time, and also like, okay, how are we refilling cups each day? So, feel it, honoring it, hopefully we can find little like nooks to read and hang out by ourselves. Janae Sargent (she/they): You'll see me just like crouching in a corner like a little goblin like recharging. Thank you for saying that. Well, I know that the prevention team is so excited for you to host a session at NSAC. Can you tell me a little bit about the session that you will be hosting? Sarah Ferrato: Yeah, totally. Also getting that acceptance into NSAC was such a joy, and our team has also been really, really pumped. We've got a lot of folks from Ohio coming, and I feel really honored and also overwhelmed, all of the feelings. And so the session is called When Prevention is Prevented, and it's all about addressing barriers to school-based prevention education. And this workshop means a lot because what we've been hearing since my time at OESV very early on, and I've been here since 2021, is that there's just been a ramp up in pushback, in school-based settings specifically. around sexual violence prevention education. A lot of that has to do with the socio-political climate that we're living in because we are seeing just constant pushback in various capacities, whether that be around anti-racism and anti-oppression, especially those frameworks as it relates to education. We're also seeing it in LGBTQ. exclusivity and especially inclusive curricula which you know, we know as best practices, especially when it comes to sexual violence, prevention, education, centering the margins in our education spaces is incredibly critical, knowing that sexual violence rates increase at the intersections of different oppressions, not because of folks' identities, but because of the dominant culture and oppressive systems we exist within. So hearing all of that from our local programs and knowing that this was impacting folks in real time felt like a critical moment to start building tools to respond to these barriers. And so out of that was kind of this initial like how do we create some resources so folks can implement in real time. And so I started to brainstorm and realized like folks across the country are also experiencing this. It's not just an Ohio thing. And so how do we get multiple voices in the space to influence the resources that we were creating? And so the roadmap that was initially born out of this brainstorm was developed in conjunction with lots of incredible people across the country, including my co-creator, Monica Garcia Vega. from the Florida Coalition, and then with lots of input from folks at the Wisconsin Coalition as well. And so beyond that, it was like, okay, so now we have these resources, what do we do? And then it was like, I think we also need to walk folks through how to actually implement and talk about in real time, some barriers that like, at the coalition levels, we might not even be aware of, because things are changing so rapidly. And so out of that, was this training development that will be at NSAC, which is really exciting. And it's really not about me being an expert on this space because like that's just not, a, not realistic and also not my vibe. I would much rather collaborate and co-create in the space together. So folks can really expect this to be a really collaborative and transformative space to address their specific needs. Janae Sargent (she/they): Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Well, first, we are also so excited for Ohio and you and everyone to be at NSAC. And we were really excited when we saw the proposal come through. Because you're right, it's not just Ohio, we're seeing this happening everywhere all across the country. It feels like every day we're hearing about new challenges that preventionists are facing, specifically when they're trying to do work in schools. And you're I mean, I think you spoke really well to it. There is no way to be an expert on what to do about this, because every community is different. And every day within those communities are different. Like, I could tell you what I don't know, maybe works 13% of the time in my town of California, but that's not going to be the same for someone in Ohio. It's not going to be the same even for me next month. So I really love that you're taking that collaborative approach. We've kind of talked big picture, there is pushback. Can you explain that a little deeper for me? What does that pushback look like? What are you seeing in Ohio? And how is that impacting preventionists? Sarah Ferrato: Yeah, absolutely. I think Ohio is mirroring what we're seeing in a lot of other states that get a pretty big focus regarding divisive political landscapes, especially when we're looking at like Florida and Texas. But Ohio... has replicated and increased these different policy proposals in ways that are mirroring a lot of what's happening in other spaces across the country. And so we are seeing parental rights being a focus of policy decision making. And that can even look like at school board meetings. So we don't even have to talk about necessarily at state level policy implementation. That also is happening. that's happening locally and that's happening even beyond local politics but then even within school systems, right? In addition, we do also see regional and state policies, even the introduction of policies, they don't even have to be passed, they don't have to be implemented, but what they do is definitely inform or shift the culture, because we recognize that the average person in the US may not have the time, capacity, resources to even dive deep into what a lot of these policies are saying. sometimes we can hear buzzwords and latch on to those things and there can be a lot of misinformation that gets spread around about what's being taught in the classroom, who's making these decisions, whether or not it's best practices, whether or not it's quote unquote indoctrinating folks into belief systems. And so we see a lot of that reflected in individual relational and community What I think we have to reckon with is that we all hold various values and beliefs, including when we're coming into a space as preventionists, it's not about distancing ourselves from those values and beliefs, but rather understanding how that can impact the space and how we hold those without imposing them on others to see it just one way. Finding a shared value set of like do Janae Sargent (she/they): Thank Sarah Ferrato: any Janae Sargent (she/they): you. Sarah Ferrato: of us want violence in our community, right? If that's the case, like if we want to alleviate our community from violence, what are some shared ways that we can do that? That may not impact how a person values, right? Like different pieces of education that may not change a person's beliefs on various topics, but it is a starting point. But what we're seeing is that there is such an impact and such a barrier to that because there's walls put up and policies that are reinforcing or shaping how people move through the world in a way that creates a lot of what I'm seeing anyway. And I believe is such a barrier to prevention, education and ending violence in general is hyper individualism. this idea that we all have a right to be hyper individualized and that no one can impose anything on another person. But what we're not grappling with is the nuance, right? That like the way we learn is in community, the way that we grow is in connection to others. Janae Sargent (she/they): Thank you. Sarah Ferrato: growth mindsets are really started by being Janae Sargent (she/they): Thanks. Sarah Ferrato: challenged on your ideas, beliefs, and values. And either it's to investigate and decide that those are still your values and beliefs and ideas moving through the world, or it's to say, you know what, that actually is challenging what I believe, and maybe I got to do a little bit more digging on how that's going to shape how I move through the world differently. And so Janae Sargent (she/they): Mm-hmm. Mm. Sarah Ferrato: we're just seeing kind of almost this monoculture of believing things that face value that are driven by policy decisions because we do believe that folks in positions of power are supposed to have our best interest at heart. And so that can be really, really hard to parse through when we know that a lot of these policies that are attacking education, attacking folks of color, they're attacking queer and trans people, when we hear those things, it can be really hard to, really hard to reconcile that the folks in power don't have our best interests at heart when they're making those policy decisions or that they're not necessarily interrogating their values and beliefs around who has rights to what. And so I just see some of that really, really impacting our ability to relationship build. because we're even hearing at local programs that valued community partnerships that folks have had for a decade are on the fritz, right? That they are, that they're concerned about the sustainability of that and also the concern around having to water down or change curricula so drastically that it deviates from any of the efficacy or any of the effectiveness of the program itself. only a small, you know, fraction of folks who are insisting that the curricula changes. One of the things that I think about is a question and, you know, a question that was posed by a dear colleague and community partner was when folks say parents should have the right to decide. how education is delivered in the classroom, it's asking which parents. Because there's plenty of parents who support curricula around evidence-based sexual violence prevention education. And who are we saying is prioritized in those spaces when they say they don't want that in the classroom? And what's the why behind it as well? So that's just some of the ways that I see it showing up. I'm sure it's showing up in even a larger breadth of ways. But those are some of the strategies. And I would say there's a difference between your everyday person who's outside of the power structures that make these decisions spreading what we would consider misinformation because of lack of potentially understanding, lack of capacity to look into it any deeper, taking some things at face value versus folks in positions of power who are spreading disinformation. So intentionally subverting the realities that like trans people are real people, or that black people should have access to safe learning environments free from violence. So I think that that's an Janae Sargent (she/they): Thank Sarah Ferrato: important Janae Sargent (she/they): you. Sarah Ferrato: distinction to make as far as the political climate is concerned too. Janae Sargent (she/they): Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, that's hyper individualized. thinking also fails to take into account that we are learning every moment from when we wake up to when we go to bed and that people are already not individualized, right? Like all of our beliefs and our biases are shaped by everything that we encounter, whether we know it or not, whether it's a billboard or a newspaper or a TV show or something that your grandpa said at Christmas or the ways that your communities are lined up. Like we are intaking information all the time. That's not anything new. It also is explicitly in textbooks and always has been what people are actually afraid of. Well, it's like you said, there are two different subsets, right? Like feel like they're the people who know who are aware and they're not afraid of information. They're afraid of different information. They're afraid of anything different. And then they are manipulating that messaging. so that other people don't recognize what is happening. And that is such a bummer. And it presents this really tough challenge for programs. And you spoke to it too, and you talked about watering our curriculum, our curricula down. I see that everywhere. And I feel like preventionists are really at a crossroads right now. And, you know, understandably, I don't always see people reacting in the most values driven way, because we have, we're presented with this challenge of lose access to 150 students who might never hear about consent education or water it down so that maybe you still get a little bit of a tiny of something positive. but it's not anywhere near the work that we want to be doing. And I think there's a difference between adjusting our wording and adjusting our values. How have you seen people reacting to that challenge? Have you seen a spectrum? Or what are you seeing more often? And how, without giving a lot away, how are you addressing that in your session? Sarah Ferrato: Yeah, I mean, these are such important points because what we're seeing right now is kind of the critical moment. And we know that this happens oftentimes because progress is winning. We see, I've heard from organizers and, you know, regarding kind of this swing, this extreme swing that is in response to the 2020 racial uprisings, right? to George Floyd's murder, we know that had been going on well before that as well because the Black Lives Matter, like. grassroots movements have been happening well before that. Even beyond that, we had global movements happening well before that as well. But there was this kind of critical moment, right? And COVID-19 also freed us up from a lot of capitalist expectations and gave a lot of folks more time, which is something that I don't think we often talk about in. a beneficial way, but I do really think that it provided, and that's to say that is not everyone's narrative, correct? Like frontline workers were not given that same time. But in general, like in a larger kind of context, there were a lot of folks with a lot of time on their hands. And we saw that when folks, especially working class people, disabled people, folks in the margins have time to reflect on the injustices and the inequities that are happening in our country and across the globe. We can build so much more meaningful solidarity, and we really are seeing that we saw this wave, but the wave has continued on. And when we see something like that happen, and it's happened throughout history, especially around revolutions, we've seen the pendulum swing the other way into pretty heavily fascist frameworks, right? And that's kind of the last gasping breath before the end of a fascist strategy. And so I think about it in that capacity because I think that it helps us realign with some of our vision. as preventionists regarding hope and possibility in a way that can feel really daunting and really unrealistic when we're met with these challenges on a daily basis. And so now I'm like going back to your question, which I like flew by. Let me just like get back to it. Do, do, my bad. Sorry, you're gonna have to edit this out. Janae Sargent (she/they): Oh, no, it's okay. And I can yeah, so it was Sarah Ferrato: Yeah. Janae Sargent (she/they): Oh, yeah, how have you seen people reacting to that choice of like, water your programs down? Or you can't come at all. Sarah Ferrato: Yeah, yeah, so as far as watering programs down, I think about it in these ways is that is it watering down or is it being culturally responsive, right? And like right now we're in a situation in which we have to really think about decisions not only as an individual preventionist, but also as an organization and as a field about like what are going to be the ultimate boundaries that we do have to set? Because if we can't possibly set boundaries as an organization or as preventionists, if we don't have the backup, like if we don't have the trust and the support of the organization saying like, this is where our boundary is around curricular adaptation, then we're not modeling the thing that we're trying to teach in the classroom and in our communities around. setting. And so I think about the cultural responsivity of adapting curricula. We do it all the time. There is guidance, especially with our evidence-based programs, around what adaptations look like and where we can push those and where we have to stop because it's going to affect advocacy. And so there's definitely nuances within kind of the either or of do we water down the curricula or do we forgo our community partnerships because it disaligns with our share or our core values as an organization? And so I think getting really clear about that is critical because there's nuance between that. And as preventionists, we are always reassessing instead of an either or what's the both and. So we can adapt our curricula, change language, adapt our activities to certain extents and that's going to look different potentially in every school and every classroom, every class even, depending on like learner engagement, readiness, like the access needs in the space, that could change just based on that those things alone. But when we think about it from the socio-political landscape and who are we leaving out, who those are some of the questions that we ask and that are asked in the workshop space because it's not about being right or wrong about our strategies, it's about what's going to work best for our communities and that's going to look different for everyone like you were saying like it's going to look different in your town in California, it's going to look different from my space in Cleveland, Ohio versus uh, you know, Marysville, Ohio Janae Sargent (she/they): Thank Sarah Ferrato: versus Janae Sargent (she/they): you. Sarah Ferrato: Cincinnati, Ohio versus Marietta, like they're going to look different. And so part of the workshop and not to get like too deep in it and give too, too much away, but part of the workshop really is about exploring the strategies that we need internally. Rather than externalizing our strategies immediately, like saying, Oh, this particular school or this partnership is creating barriers to us engaging with students. It's rather like, okay, what are we doing as an organization to set up strategies that best support the frontline staff workers who are often going to be navigating these really hard conversations? What does it look like to proactively prepare teachers in the classroom to better understand what their role and their expectations are in the classroom? What does it look like to proactively prepare parents and askable and caring adults before programming so that they don't feel unsure about you, this random person coming into the space to teach their kids? especially Janae Sargent (she/they): Mm-hmm. Sarah Ferrato: about a topic that like we are trying to normalize, but the reality is it is a stigmatized topic, right? Janae Sargent (she/they): Okay. Sarah Ferrato: And so these are some of the ways where it's like how do we organizationally look in and say what gaps do we have to strategizing around maintaining these partnerships and then also like what are our clear set boundaries that we need to be prepared to engage with? should the classroom spaces, the teachers, administration, parents be asking unrealistic expectations of, right? Because there is a difference between adapting curricula to meet the needs of the community and forgoing best practices altogether to provide education that might, might Janae Sargent (she/they): Mm-hmm. Sarah Ferrato: help like an individual student in the classroom. Janae Sargent (she/they): Hmm. Sarah Ferrato: And finally, it's also about not only those either ors, but also understanding that prevention education doesn't happen in a vacuum, that there are so many other touch points that we can possibly dig into that don't always look like a traditional classroom setting that are Janae Sargent (she/they): Mm-hmm. Sarah Ferrato: still going to reach the students that are in the classroom if we do have to forego that partnership temporarily or permanently. Janae Sargent (she/they): Yeah, I love that. Thank you for Yeah, thank you for that perspective. And I love what it sounds like with your session. You're not giving people the answers because you recognize that you don't have them, but you're equipping organizations with the tools to be proactive with these things, to set their boundaries ahead of time. So it's not something that happens in the moment to set up safety plans ahead of time, if something comes up during a session and yeah, to think about other options, you know, I think. we could all work on nuance, especially in our movement. We could really work, I think in some spaces, we're great at nuance, in other spaces, we're really not. And when we hear youth say, we want you in our schools, that's important to us. Our minds immediately go to classrooms. And classrooms have a soft spot in my heart. I was a sex educator. I miss it, you know, and there are other ways to reach people. I'm thinking about this other, component to navigating these relationships, which you talked about a little bit when you were talking about how hard they can be. And that's the emotional toll that they take on preventionists, usually coordinator level prevention as this might be their first job. They usually have like the hardest schedules, the hardest jobs, they're compensated the least out of everyone in an organization. And they have to have These really difficult conversations, oftentimes about things that intersect with their own experiences and identities and hold that. If someone were to say, we don't wanna talk about race for XYZ. We don't wanna talk about LGBTQ identities for XYZ. This is what it means. If that is a part of you, you have to sit there and absorb it and respond. And that is damaging. I'm wondering. If you have how you have seen organizations support their staff in navigating those relationships before burnout happens and if that's something that you speak to in your session. Sarah Ferrato: Yeah, it's a really, really important point because what we know is that... Frontline staff workers are often going to experience the most direct impacts of anything that's going on in our world, whether that be interventionists, advocates, preventionists, like, and we know that our field is grappling with internalized violence around economics, right? To your point, that folks that are coordinators, that are frontline staff workers are often getting paid the least amount. and they're doing the most direct work that impacts culture shifts away from rape culture which helps to end sexual violence which is the vision right the mission and the vision that we hold as a field and so prioritizing that would also look like grappling with the fields own kind of violences around that But when we're thinking about it in real time, when we're thinking about it, say, in classroom settings and in community settings. some of what the tools that Monica and I had created really dug a little bit into the introduction of that. So in the roadmap, it does feature some conversation starters and suggestions around what it would look like to role play hard conversations with a safe colleague or safe person that you have a relationship with in the field. So that not only are we preparing ourselves for engaging in those hard conversations and having to not compartmentalize necessarily our emotions but how to manage through them and also to honor those emotions and responses and like what is going to be different than staying in an uncomfortable conversation and what does it look like to be supported in disengaging from a harmful engagement, whether that be in the classroom or with the folks that we're trying to coordinate to get into learning spaces with. And so we definitely explored this in the workshop, not explicitly like every single time because as mentioned, the workshop is really driven by and shaped by the folks who are learning in that space. And so I'm just really kind of trying to act as a conduit to like hold the container for which we're like co-creating together, right? Janae Sargent (she/they): Mm. Sarah Ferrato: but it does come up explicitly because if we do not have the support of organizational leadership, of the board, of our supervisors to say it is not only okay, but it's encouraged and we are actively supporting disengagement from harmful interactions, then how do we empower, right? Like how can we as folks... directly in those spaces feel empowered to assert ourselves in those moments or disengage from those moments. We can often replicate those same structures of harm that we're trying to teach learners in those spaces to undo, but if we can't model it, like we can't ask anybody to do something we're not willing to do ourselves, right? But that becomes so much more complicated when it's tied up in economic stability, when it's tied up in our... If it's a part of our core role responsibilities, if we don't have folks who are listening and creating lateral leadership opportunities to say, hey, like this is what's happening in real time and we need to set up some proactive strategies to respond to this or to prevent it from ever happening. Janae Sargent (she/they): Mm-hmm. Sarah Ferrato: So, part of the workshop, we do explore building out our sustainability toolbox. And a lot of that is based on the disaster management framework. So there's a disaster management cycle that a lot of folks who are engaged in, like the profession of disaster management, which is mind boggling, that folks do this for a living, but also they'd probably say the same thing about our work, Janae Sargent (she/they): Pruss. Sarah Ferrato: is that is that we like move up in the cycle that we're often so focused on preparedness and response that we're not often focusing on mitigation. And so it can be very mirrored in our field of like primary, secondary, and tertiary prevention strategies, right? We're very focused on secondary and tertiary after harm has happened, but like, what would it look like? as organizations and as preventionists in the field to focus in on the mitigation strategies. And so that's really the crux of the session is how do we stop always constantly in this loop of response to harm? And how do we model even from like the very relationship building that we're doing? How do we model what it looks like to engage in prevention strategies that are going to set us up for the best success for the folks who are looking for that and we want to focus in on as the learners. We don't want to focus in on all of the like wading through administrative bureaucracy, right? Like we want to get in and be able to learn together in, you know, in those education spaces. Janae Sargent (she/they): Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I hear you about the power of learning together too. And it's always just this is a side note. It is wild to me how many things you can do for a job out there. I one is our profession. If you would have told me that this was like a thing I was going to work in. When I was 16, I would have laughed like I would not have thought that it was possible. And also yeah, that there are people working in disaster management, not a job I ever considered existed. I know that they have to do it. I know it's important work. And there are so many crossovers. Oftentimes I just think about all of the invisible jobs that like help to make our world run and push it in a better direction. Sometimes I wish I could just get us all together and like move past all the language. I think we could learn so much from each other. And speaking from learning from each other. The prevention track is one of many tracks at the National Sexual Assault Conference. And you spoke to this a little bit earlier when you were talking about this socio-political climate that we're in and this pendulum swing. And I think what we're seeing in schools and even in prevention as a whole is one result of that. Our movement is being deeply impacted across every sector. with what we're all experiencing in the country right now. Thinking about NSAC is a place that brings so many voices together. What are some conversations that you are hoping to see happening at NSAC, whether that's in your session in the prevention track, or even just pie in the sky hopes and dreams for the movement? Sarah Ferrato: Well, I think directly to your point, this idea of connecting across different professions. But I think that it's even, I think about NSAC as the ultimate container for how we build out more robust communities of practice. And so my hope is that in addition to the incredible training sessions, which I have to tell you, I like went to colleagues and was like, wait, did you? did you look through everything and sign up for your sessions? And they were like, I can't choose. There's too many good ones. How do I choose? So just Janae Sargent (she/they): It's gonna Sarah Ferrato: kudos Janae Sargent (she/they): be good. Sarah Ferrato: to y'all and Janae Sargent (she/they): Thank Sarah Ferrato: yeah. Janae Sargent (she/they): you. We even as staff picking which ones we're facilitating. I'm a one I'm a coordinator for the LGBTQ track. And so I'm really passionate about I really want to see how those go. But also the prevention there's so many that I want to see I'm really interested in the sex worker track that it's and they're all happening at the same time. So that's a huge compliment. Thank you. I will pass it on to our with the conspiracy theory boards, like trying to connect everything, it is impossible. Sarah Ferrato: Yes, it feels very much like Julia Roberts meme of like all the numbers around Janae Sargent (she/they): Yes. Sarah Ferrato: the head. Janae Sargent (she/they): I will tell David that you said that. I'll send this clip to David and he'll be like, you have no idea. Sarah Ferrato: But like to that point, right, is like. What can happen sometimes when we're like, wow, there's just this sea of choice that we can often get really comfortable in like, okay, this is the prevention track and I'm just gonna go down the list and sign up for all the prevention track. But the beautiful thing that I saw with the NSAC sessions is that there's so much crossover and so much collaboration and so many perspectives that could be applicable across. And so I'm really excited to see possibility in that of like, how can we expand our practices and how can we cross collaborate and not create so many silos of like interventionists versus preventionists versus so-and-so, you know, like how do we ensure that we're recognizing the strengths in this multidisciplinary approach to knowledge and skill building? I'm also really interested in, and I know this has been, at least I can tell you, I how that this has been a commitment from you all is this idea of going beyond the 101 and the consciousness raising. There is such deep benefit in that and we're always learning something new and we're going to trip up and make mistakes along the way. And also like nothing is static, especially in such a young field of sexual violence prevention. that what worked for us right back in the 80s or 90s is maybe not going to work for us as well or at all right now or in the future. And I'm just really excited to see how we can be flexible and adaptable and we can go of kind of preconceived notions about what we should be doing in these spaces and that we can go beyond the 101 of like, okay, it's really important for us to apply like anti-oppression framework to our curriculum, right? What does that look like in action? Because I think we can say it over and over again, examples of how to actually do that, we're gonna fall short and we'll continue to regardless because there's always that expansion, but to actually have folks in a space together to collaborate with, I think is just, it's indispensable opportunities. I'm also like really, really jazzed to meet a bunch of people in person for the first time ever, like having connected with so many people across the country and having this opportunity at the coalition to meet. so many incredible people in the field, but only having ever done it like this, right? Janae Sargent (she/they): Mm-hmm. Sarah Ferrato: It just feels really special to be able to connect in that way and generate even more kind of incredible kind of collaborative ideas together. So yeah, those are some things that I'm really looking forward to. Yeah, of course, like the sessions are gonna be amazing and the one-on-one connection feels really important too. Janae Sargent (she/they): Yeah. Oh, thank you for saying that. That gives me all the feels. I mean, not that it was me or anything, but I am also feeling that way. And I've never been to an ENSAC before. This will be my first so I fun. Sarah Ferrato: Same. Janae Sargent (she/they): Um, wow, I we all joke as staff. We're like, we need to start getting our outfits together now. Like, who are we going to be at ENSAC? I'm like, catch me in sweats. I don't know. This is not but it's also very exciting. at the same time. And I agree with you. I think what I love most about my job at a coalition level is that I feel like I get paid to learn from awesome people like, yeah, I create content as well. But I feel like the vast majority of the time I'm just in this incredible space where I get to meet people like you every day and take in all of the things that you're doing that I never would have known. when I was at a local program and NSAC, I see that as just extending that even further. And it will be really amazing to be in community. Sarah, I so deeply appreciate you giving us a little sneak preview of your session. I'm excited. I know that other people are excited after hearing this and it's just such a needed topic. So thank you so much and I will see you in like Sarah Ferrato: Yes, Janae Sargent (she/they): three weeks. Sarah Ferrato: I can't wait. Yeah, thank you for this platform to share a little bit more about the session and you know come out we have some laughs there's definitely levity like this is a lot of hard work and we like can connect through some laughter and play and like yeah. you'll leave the session with like good connections and maybe some strategies, but also just like a reminder that we're not alone in this work. And that feels like a critical reminder for everybody. So thanks Janae Sargent (she/they): That's Sarah Ferrato: so much, Janae Sargent (she/they): so Sarah Ferrato: Janai. Janae Sargent (she/they): important. Sarah Ferrato: I really Janae Sargent (she/they): You're Sarah Ferrato: appreciate Janae Sargent (she/they): welcome. Sarah Ferrato: it. Janae Sargent (she/they): Yeah, you often feel or I often feel and have an announcement of people that feel so alone in this work. So I will be popping into your session and can't wait for the laughs. I'm here for that. Sarah Ferrato: Yes. Always.